flamer in the worst way
Moya and Leanne and lots of other awesomely brave humans worked their asses off trying to retain the right of people of all non-“traditional” gender combinations to marry. And, well, Proposition 8 passed, sadly. And, well, M and L and all the others will keep going, keep fighting for legalization of gay marriage. And I’ll keep going to weddings, traditional and not, “valid” and not. They’re all real to me. Because I am an advocate for love! Love!
Depressing as the whole Prop 8 thing is to me, more depressing is the nastiness going down in Moya’s blog — a loud and annoying person screamed at her in the comments, someone who doesn’t happen to share Moya’s opinions. And this person did nothing to further his cause, as he presented himself so damn boorishly. And ironically, in his own blog, he exhorts people to comment: “let’s get a discussion going!”
You’re welcome to check out Moya’s blog and offer her support, or to state your opinion. Already, some people have stepped up with wonderful comments. It seems a heartening bunch of humans are also pro-love! Update: Moya has closed comments after a they became a whirlwind of emotion.
You can have any opinion, just don’t be an asshole about it! Defeat assholery! That’s sort of my eternal platform.
This is what I wrote:
The real danger of trolls and flame wars and general madness in comment areas on the internet: general erosion of respect. I’m not talking about hate-mongering or agenda-pushing, I’m talking about basic, reciprocal consideration of our mutual human-ness and the entitlement to opinions. I’m happy that lots of people have a viewpoint, a desire to argue, and have put their money where their mouth is by voting, engaging in activism and being committed to their cause.
I’d be happier if we would remember that we’re thinking adults, hopefully raised to be more polite and respectful and OPEN than our typed insults.
This is my opinion: I think that any combo of two humans should be allowed to create a legal, lasting bond. I have yet to hear a convincing argument otherwise. And, really, it’s just not a big deal to me. I have seen plenty of good couples and bad couples, good parents and bad parents, of all gender/orientation combinations. I think there are a lot of issues where energy and attention and HEAT can be focused: education, health care, economy. Rome is burning! Why are we fiddling away on this one issue?
Related hamblinks:
- No on 8! All genders have a right to mate!
- gride groom bride broom
- what is this strange feeling?
- just when you thought it was a hopeless quagmire of american apathy
Fucking asshole! It took me forever to write my reply on Moya’s wall. Not having met Moya – and not wanting to bring down the cause – I struggled with restraining the ghetto in me.
Fucking fucker.
grrr…
p.s.: I was uber impressed with your open-minded, level-headed, restrained response. Damn, that must have harshed your mellow yesterday. Your twitter/fb statuses (stati?) yesterday are now sadly understandable.
Fucker.
That’s the trouble with thinking beyond the words written in the Bible. Man has put the value and bond of marriage completely out of their minds. Now the most important agendas are preserving forests, saving animals, gay marriage,legalizing pot and countless other things warned about in the Bible.
Greed and corruption run rampant in this society and soon it will be like Sodom and the wickedness will be destroyed..or maybe God will have pity on the few that can stand for His truth and His word. You have no respect for our society, our children and their innocent minds. The gargabe on tv portrays the minds of Hollywood and its’ liberal agenda to turn this country into the depths of Hell.
Thanks, Lin. You’re totally entitled to your opinion, but I sure wish you’d convey your thoughts in a more respectful and constructive way.
Anyone else wanting to comment? Try to remember this is my house, and please, don’t feed the trolls. Don’t engage those who don’t want to listen or engage in real dialog.
right on, becky! prop8 has a harmful effect on those of us with families and marriages that we are committed to. I’m hopeful that Obama might offer some federal rights, that the trend is towards supporting our relationships and families, not towards denigrating and hurting us.
I’ve been thinking a lot about the topic of civil discourse lately. A large part of why I think that Obama won the election was because he maintained a certain level of it. While McCain’s camp was creating straw men and accusing Obama of being friendly with terrorists, being a socialist, and playing on the xenophobia and religious paranoia of the nation, Obama kept his attention on voting records and outcomes of policy decisions.
I have to wonder if our nation would be as bitterly divided as it is if we managed to keep a higher level of discourse. Is it any wonder that we are so hostile to one another, when our discourse is designed to fan the flames of hate and fear? How can anyone take McCain seriously when he calls Obama a terrorist-associating-socialist on Monday and then says that he’ll do all he can to support Obama and encourages his fervent followers to accept his leadership Tuesday night?
Much of my problem with the Yes on 8 campaign was its use of distortions and outright lies as the means to get the measure passed. Considering that this was a fundamentally religiously based initiative, I find it doubly distressing. After all Christians (and most others of a spiritual bent) have explicit prohibitions against “bearing false witness”. Ultimately, it seemed that the people behind Prop 8 knew that if they presented their actual concerns and arguments for altering the state constitution, the majority of people wouldn’t support them, so they created a doomsday scenario with changes in education and loss of religious freedoms to scare people into voting they way they wanted them to. This not only subverts the call for integrity made by their own scripture, but is a blatant end run around the fundamentals of democracy that they as Americans claim to be defending.
I don’t agree with Lin, and didn’t even when I was in Seminary. But at least Lin isn’t misrepresenting herself. I think it’s quite clear what she believes and why, and while I believe her perspective is limited and based on a very odd and culturally defined way of viewing the Bible (which I don’t believe ever warns against preserving forests, explicitly speaks against unnecessary cruelty to animals that you are using for food, and has virtually nothing to say about pot (although it is rather divided in its statements about wine)) I am glad that she’s stating herself truthfully.
I’m crushing on Dan right now. 🙂
Well, girl, you have truly made it. High five. AND SAVE THE ANIMALS!
By the way, my 89 year old Catholic Grandma voted no on 8.
becky:
thank you, and a million more. and you, regina, too.
thank you,
-m
Wow! There was another intense debate on my Facebook page about this. This Prop. 8 seems to be more charged than the presidential election!
For every respectful debate of differing opinions, I’ve seen five nasty ones. This is why I became an Interfaith Minister – to foster discussions like this in a way that is respectful. No one is going to change the other’s opinion – we all just want to be heard.
The trolling and flaming is a sad outcome of what is a really wonderful tool of instant global communication.
It is hard for me to listen to the people in my life who voted “yes” on 8, and I am so glad they are in my life and I am in theirs. Where else are these folks going to hear bout the powerful experience of officiating at 3 same-sex weddings this summer? Not from their pastor. And how else am I going to understand why so many people voted “yes” on 8. More than anything, knowledge is power.
I’m so sorry for your tears Moya. Don’t give up. My faith tells me that this all will be overturned and all marriages will stay and continue to be legal. I believe that love conquers all!
Tristy
I’m pretty disgusted and feel very embarrassed for Maddog. I feel very bad for him as well – it must be so hard to go through life as he does – thinking the way he does. Everyone’s entitled to their opinions, but he did it wrong. Way wrong. Best wishes Moya… I wish things turned out differently. 🙁